Bucs Browns Trade

majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
What are we doing here guys? Are we looking at these trades? You guys approved a 67 OVR WR for a 4th round pick and then approve an 80 OVR starting HB for two nothing picks?

In not saying he's first round talent but 2nd probably. 3rd at worst IMO.

And how do new guys judge what will get approved when there's no consistency in how you approve trades? We went ove this last year in PM...

We might need to re-evaluate the committee of this is how we are going to handle things bc this is not what we are after here.
 
majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
For reference sake, I was just talking about Bishop Sankey for a 3rd round pick. Maybe you guys were swayed a little by Martin's real life production which would seem more reasonable considering his production lately. But in Madden he's more valuable. We just have to get more consistent here.
 
majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
I'm not going to veto this trade, but if someone sees this and wants to come behind and offer more before its eligible to be processed Jukemwr21 will be allowed to accept the better offer.
 
georgiafan

georgiafan

Hall of Famer
Something else to think about when trading future draft pick is the general rule of thumb I have always used/heard is the future draft pick you get loses a round of value. So the 6th round pick the bucs got in 2017 is really a 7th round value if that makes sense.

I would also recommend posting a screenshot or detailed ratings
 
majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
I've talked to woodsmall12 and pack1797 and there was some dialogue behind the scenes. Let's make sure to have those conversations in the trade threads though. That's the point of doing these publicly, for transparency.

I also looked at Martin and can see why he wasn't valued higher. I still think Jukemwr21 could have got a little more from someone with a bigger HB need and I think he should have been encouraged to do so or at least asked to explain his reasoning. Its fine to process it if he does not get a better offer, but we need to be asking more questions. And we need more consistency.

Again, there was a 67 OVR WR approved for a 4th and then there was the Giants-Chargers trade which never should have seen the light of day. We are a high level simulation football league. We need to take the same analysis into making and/or approving trades that we do into mixing up our play calls. Its fine if you approve them, but at least show that we are asking questions and making sure its the right thing for the league, even more so when new owners are involved. Look at what happened with the Giants trade and he's not even around anymore.
 
woodsmall12

woodsmall12

All-Star
My two cents ...

HB and WR are valued differently ... This has been brought up many times during trade discussions ... This has been established by the committee and we have been told to consider that ... So comparing a WR trade to a HB trade makes no sense

In regards to the 67 ovr WR, I got a 4th round pick bcz WR position tends to hold more value and more importantly his speed is 94 w 92 acc ... Martin has 88 spd and 87 acc ... And for all intensive purposes that is a late 4th round pick that I got

Now to the Martin trade ...
I approved it bcz I don't value Martin any higher then what he got from a pretty stacked position ... This guy will never be better then what he is

Positives:
He is young (hi value)
He can spin (lil value)
High agility (lil value)
Negatives:
He is 5'9 so he can't truck ppl
Poor catch ratings so not 3DRB
slow and lacks burst (hi value)
1 yr on contract (hi value)

Trade makes sense to me
 
woodsmall12

woodsmall12

All-Star
Btw georgiafan ... I have never heard that ... Interesting take ... Can't say I agree with it tho ... Maybe I'm missing something ... What are your thoughts? Guess maybe the thinking is that u would naturally expect the team trading the pick to improve which means that selection gets pushed back later in the round taking away value??
 
majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
Martin averaged 4.5 yards per carry in the Xbox league by a user that obviously knows how to run the ball. So saying he has no value is short-sighted and subjective. Also, his height plays absolutely no roll in Madden.

88 SPD isn't "slow" but its about avg and perfectly adequate for a decent HB. Unless marshawn lynch is only worth a 5th and a 6th because of his extremely slow speed lol. But this its still subjective.

If I did not have an alternative option already and had I known Martin was this cheap, I would have explored him for a 4th probably. There may have been others as well. That is my point. This was not explored and nobody on the committee bothered to even ask the question. A 5th and a future 6th is basically giving him a way. Fine if nobody else was interested and he was going to cut him anyway, but that was not never explored.

Yes, that is the job of the committee. We have to ensure guys are at least attempting to get fair market value. We have to ensure one owner is not exploiting another unknowing owner just because "he offered it". I'm not saying that applies it this case, but it has happened and nobody is bothering to ask the questions. But yet our Xbox guys, completely new to this, are thoroughly examining every trade that may be possibly deemed unfair. They tore one of my trades apart lol.

This committee is just way too passive and seems to just have the attitude of "well, if thats what they want to do ok" and thats not what we're looking for. What if we said, well, if they wants to keep running 4 verts, ok? Or, hey, they like the toss, let them run it 20 times a game? The job of this committee is to make sure the thought process was at least right and that, especially new owners, understand value and know what they are doing. I'm not saying juke did not, but nobody asked and that bothers me.

I understand if some of you don't agree with that method of managing trades but I made that clear earlier this season in PM. Now I'm making it publicly. If anyone does not agree and wants to be taken off the committee that is ok. But the committee needs to be at least exploring the mindset behind the trades and ensuring its reasonably fair for both sides. This is a minor example but one which still should have been examined closer.
 
georgiafan

georgiafan

Hall of Famer
Well first when trading draft picks in rounds 5-7 I don't think we will know how valuable those picks in a online franchise are till after the draft when everyone gets a better feel for scouting. For example in my offline franchise I drafted a two HB's in round 6 & 7 one of those I only drafted bc I screwed up with how I scouted something that I now know not to do. One of those guys graded out as a 6th round guy If I gave him the carries would make the probowl year 1. What we don't know is if that was a online franchise with 24 smart people drafting would that HB still be there in round 6 or would some user pick him up in the 4th round

From the browns side it is a no brainer move as I posted in the offseason thread HB is there #1 priority in my eyes. They have now filled that need with a proven madden player and didn't even have to give up a pick in the top 4 rounds. He is also going into a situation with a OL full of players in the 90's. So Martin will be able to easily go over 1,000 yards and up his rating several points. I don't think the browns did anything wrong that's just how you build a team. The one risk he is taking is he could maybe get a similar or even better player in FA like Lamar Miller (cpu dolphins)

Martin only avg. 3.5 a carry for the old bucs coach but I don't think those stats mean anything as this guy threw a lot of passes (more then any other user) and then avg over 7 yards a carry with Jeff Demps. I also had HB as a need for the bucs so with a new owner if they didn't think Martin was someone they wanted to build around I understand trading him for 2 draft picks. I am sure they will add a HB at some point. But one disadvantage that they have is not being able to scout all year long. So a 5th round pick this year he can still turn into a good player but its gonna be harder to do bc he didn't get to scout the players he wanted all year. Even if they are a lot of guys with 5th round grades that are confirmed we don't know if those guys will even be there in round 5.

In the end I think bucs are taking on more of a risk and I would want one of those picks to be a round higher.
 
Glen Cieske

Glen Cieske

All-Star
Hey now...that Giants owner was made very aware he was getting the raw end of the deal and very much wanted those players. Although you could argue that both players he got could've been made into stars, but whatevs it was totally in my favor.

If there is another spot in the trade committee I would totally be down for it.
 
majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
Glen Cieske said:
Hey now...that Giants owner was made very aware he was getting the raw end of the deal and very much wanted those players. Although you could argue that both players he got could've been made into stars, but whatevs it was totally in my favor.

If there is another spot in the trade committee I would totally be down for it.
Click to expand...

We may need to make it a 7-man committee lol. But regardless of if he was made aware, he was a ding dong and the committee should have protected the league from his ignorance. That's their job.
 
Glen Cieske

Glen Cieske

All-Star
majesty95 said:
We may need to make it a 7-man committee lol. But regardless of if he was made aware, he was a ding dong and the committee should have protected the league from his ignorance. That's their job.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I should have just said no to the guy when he offered it.
 
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