***VOTE*** Defensive Line/Sacks

[BlackPaw]

This is what you don't understand and I don't know why you are so hesitant to accept. This is the EXACT same engine that was used last year. The sliders last year functioned almost EXACTLY like the sliders from the previous 5 or 6 years on PS3. They have been the same slider issues since it migrated from PS2. Nothing has changed. Many of us have played this game since it was on Sega Genesis. You, admittedly, have only played it for 4 years. Wouldn't it be safe to say that those of us that have 25 years of experience would have a better understanding of how these things work in game than someone who is relatively new to the game?

Not to mention, you keep missing the real issues. Roughly 10% of the players are getting an inordinately high number of sacks. 90% of players are getting a reasonable number of sacks. But, adjusting sliders (pass blocking is the only slider which would affect this) affects 100% of the players. So, we would be hampering 90% of the players to try and bring 10% of the players back down to normalcy. That, in turn, will give only the guys who user very good d-linemen realistic sacks while hampering the other 90% that are move average or CPU controlled. How is that a fair and equitable solution? You keep saying "adjust sliders" but you don't seem to fully understand how the sliders work. One slider controls 100% of this area but only 10% of the players are affected. I don't see how neutering 90% to fix 10% is a solid fix...

Well to be fair, thats the current political process(10%>90%) but I digress... lol

 

[Mark]

Mark You can see them here http://daddyleagues.com/px1/stats/player

Come on, opting out of voting isn't a solution. Lol. Its a blend vote. Pick one if u had to. We can still try to find a balance if u are not 100% one way or the other.

I agree with wanting the player's attributes to matter and I don't want to neuter them to restrict guys who are getting carried away with sacks. I understand guys who play as the D-line (that's all I play as lol) but I don't see another option.

We can't (and shouldn't have to) monitor everything the user does. Guys should be able to not abuse this just like you don't abuse counters or corner routes or strong powers. Unfortunately, this is a little more difficult than saying hey you ran a counter or corner a couple times too many. How to do police guys that exclusively play as the d-line and have got really good at getting elite linemen sacks?

I've thought about limiting how often you can play as one of the linemen. However, limiting them to just 3rd down now gives them the go ahead to use this cheesy tactic on 3rd down. Its not 100% but I've watched a lot of games and sometimes these guys just get through almost like a nano blitz. Its ridiculous. Is it really fair for the opposing user to know they have to face that every 3rd down?

It's a difficult issue to rectify. I do think it's partly culture and some of these guys that are abusing it could learn to not abuse it and go to it every time they need a sack. That would help tremendously. But I'm not sure it's the easy when u play as a d-lineman every down...

I just need more info, I wasn't opting out.

Doesn't seem to be too extreme like you are saying. The top 3 sack leaders are all LB's from 3-4 defenses, so it doesn't look like you are giving a fair look at the sacks. I don't see a lot of DT's in the top 10 of sacks. so another sign that things aren't out of balance as much as you are thinking. You kind of need to look at the game tapes, if it is a running qb there are going to be more sacks in the game due to calling more contain defense to stop the qb's from taking off.
I think trying to adjust the sliders is a good idea, but again it doesn't seem to extreme to me.

 

[pack1797]

Without banning controlling a los guy on defense, and without touching the slider, let's come up with another option. Several of you guys have more experience with Madden than me, but there has to be some kind of middle ground here. We're in danger of losing an active, positive owner. Let's act like we give a damn. Too many lobby losers have come and gone to be passive about losing a quality owner.

 

[majesty95]

Mark you are looking at it after I have suspended a few players the past few weeks to keep them from getting out of hand. 4-5 weeks ago we had 5 or so guys on pace for over 20. They've dropped down quite a bit since then. So, in theory, it's been solved. But I've watched dozens of games and guy use this to get easy sacks, especially when losing. Its cheese ball. Chandler Jones getting 5 sacks doesn't help me feel any better about it

 

[woodsmall12]

I just need more info, I wasn't opting out.

Doesn't seem to be too extreme like you are saying. The top 3 sack leaders are all LB's from 3-4 defenses, so it doesn't look like you are giving a fair look at the sacks. I don't see a lot of DT's in the top 10 of sacks. so another sign that things aren't out of balance as much as you are thinking. You kind of need to look at the game tapes, if it is a running qb there are going to be more sacks in the game due to calling more contain defense to stop the qb's from taking off.
I think trying to adjust the sliders is a good idea, but again it doesn't seem to extreme to me.

In fairness, I think Mark makes a good point ... I am a good example of his theory ... as you have mentioned majesty95, you pointed out the fact that I tend to float back in the pocket which in your sim video you explain that I give better angles to rushing ends ... this in fact means that I contribute to the increased sacks ... in turn, anyone who tends to boot or roll to either side also runs the risk of getting sacked ... not to mention the desperate attempts at half time and game ending hail marys that also add to increased sacks in an effort to hold out and get the most mustard on the ball

Ultimately I somewhat agree that some guys could definitely abuse some form of D Line pass rush, it seems there is another factor which is QB competency ... I think myself and pack1797 (no offense) are in the same boat bcz we throw hella picks ... in turn I think some guys are slow to pass ... I have started to push my way back into the pocket to avoid sacks and picks but I can only control what I can control

Guess my point being is that its not always the guy rushing the DE ... its also the guy controlling how long he holds the ball in the pocket

 

[pack1797]

None taken. You're right in respect to at least my qb competency. I've definitely contributed to some of my sacks in the same ways you mentioned. My issue only arises when you can't complete a three step drop before you get sacked because of overpowering game mechanics.

 

[majesty95]

I've watched plenty of games and seen this in action. I watched Xxclaywilliamxx get two sacks in three plays and (I believe) 8 sacks overall with it vs pack1797. I watched blewberries get 7 sacks in two games with Calais Campbell using it. I watched NightHawkTH32 use it to get two sacks in three plays at the end of a game vs CPU using it. Those are the ones that stand out.

I'm sure Chandler Jones' 5 sacks vs CPU were a product of this in some way. Most likely the 6 sacks we saw by one guy earlier this year were a product of this as well as the game in which someone got 10 sacks as a team.

This mechanic makes it too easy for good pass rushers to get pressure and multiple users have shown a lack of restraint in using this mechanic in an effort to remain sim. So something needs to change. Either our rules or the mindsets of those following them. No true sim player should see these instances as anything other than an abuse of a flawed AI. If we're not going to police this then why have "sim" rules at all? Let's just run money plays all game and break all kinds of records. Its the same thing.

 

[Mark]

Mark you are looking at it after I have suspended a few players the past few weeks to keep them from getting out of hand. 4-5 weeks ago we had 5 or so guys on pace for over 20. They've dropped down quite a bit since then. So, in theory, it's been solved. But I've watched dozens of games and guy use this to get easy sacks, especially when losing. Its cheese ball. Chandler Jones getting 5 sacks doesn't help me feel any better about it

You should check out the game tape, most of the sacks came from playing contain defense on a running qb. which I didnt start using until after he ran for a couple of first downs( M.Vick,) also he ran to his left more where my RE was.

 

[BlackPaw]

Just catching up on the threads... I see how the QB play increases the chance of getting a sack. I dont think Maj is negating that fact. I think he is more concerned with the abuse of the button mashing at the snap of the ball. The more we converse about this, the more I understand that there must be two parts to the solution. One may or may not be the ban of using the player on the line (either dline or olb) and the other has to be a change in mindset. There must be an agreed upon understanding about the nature of "SIM" and the personal intergrity that comes into play about not exploiting AI issues.

I have and will contiune to adopt the change of dline play. Also, starting in the playoffs, win or lose, I will only "user" a non dline player. Playoffs are supposed to be hard rt? lol