Why Games Aren't Perfect

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
I wanted to put this together really quick to address some things that I have heard on here and Twitter over the past week since Madden 16 released. I used to be one of those guys who was critical of everything that EA did and never could understand why bugs happened and things weren't as perfect as I wanted them to be. Then I started coding websites. :) This is by no means an insider view of what goes on behinds the scenes. But it is based on info I have gathered in reading articles, watching videos and chatting with different people involved with the game in one way or another.

Patching a Bug Should Be Easy

This is one of the most misunderstood aspects of video games: coding. Most end users grab a controller and use that to direct the players on the field. Somehow they draw the correlation that because it seems so easy to use that it is easy to program (and fix). That is simply not the case.

I do not know exactly how each part of the game is programmed. I'm sure there are editing suites that make adding and changing things much easier than old school binary coding (0's and 1's). However, I suspect a great deal of the gameplay still involves thousands of lines of code. And there are probably hundreds of thousands of characters populating those lines of code. Sometimes, a simple character (like an ( instead of an [ ) can cause an issue. So first you have to figure out that it is actually an improper character and which one, then you have to scroll through all those lines of code and figure out which one was misplaced. Then, you have to hope fixing one thing does not uncover a bug somewhere else. Again, I'm sure their systems are far more complex than HTML or CSS, but I'm sure some of the same principles apply to many of their applications. It can be a pain staking process and one that is not quick or easy.

EA Should be Working Around the Clock to Fix the Bugs

That's a noble idea but one that I do not think is entirely practical. I mean, I wouldn't want my programmers working more than 8 hours per day as fatigue can just lead to more errors. So then you are talking about hiring more programmers, who have to be qualified and vetted and then rbought up to speed on all fo the coding which is done already. Then they would have to dig in and try to find these bugs? That doesn't sound very practical to me.

The Game Should Work Right Out of the Box

For the most part this is accurate. The game should work properly at launch. Things like the CFM bug should not happen. We should not have to avoid key features of the game that we primarily bought the game for. However, the game is never going to be perfect, at launch or at any other time. Again, there are tens of thousands of lines of code and pages of applications used in creating the game. And nobody ever gets it perfect. Shoot, when was the last time you bought a new iPhone or Android phone that worked perfect out of the box? And we pay hundreds of dollars for them. They usually don't have bugs of this size, but bugs will always come with any type of software (see Windows).

The Devs are Lazy and Don't Care

This one bothers me the most. How do you know that? Have you met them? Have you spoken to them? Have you read any articles or watched any videos where this was substantiated with fact?

I think this is mostly a frustration thing. EA certainly has a history of issue with games so its easy to see where some people try to connect those dots. The fact is though, we know nothing about these guys other than what we see in interviews that they do. I, personally, think this team has cared more about this game and the Madden community more than any other team that has ever worked on the game (certainly in the social media age). They are imperfect like the rest of us. But if they didn't care and were lazy, why would't they just avoid social media and hide in their offices? Other teams have done that. Other game developers have done that. But these guys are out there several times a week chatting with guys. I don't find that lazy or uncaring.

We Are Just Paying Game Testers

Honestly, I can see how people feel that way. However, its far from the truth. EA has a small QA team (somewhere between 5-8 guys from what I understand). They also fly in Game Changers (key players in the Madden community) several times a year to test the game and give feedback. A LOT of stuff is found and uncovered.

However, even if you have 5 guys working 40 hours a week for 2 months testing the game (and its likely much more with the entire team testing before release) that's roughly 1,600 hours of testing. Yet, Madden usually sells at least 1 million copies in the first week. And how many hours does the average player play? 5-10? So in one week the Madden team gets 5-10 million hours of gameplay feedback vs ~ 1,600 hours in the two months prior via testing. There is no possible way that they could ever replicate that kind of user base and all of the different things those users do with the game.

I do agree that some things could be done better and tuned better out of the gate. They certainly need to look at the current processes they have in place. But we're never going to have a perfect release and one without a some fairly significant bugs reported just because of the sheer volume of players and unique ways the game can be played.

EA Just Wants to Make Money

Should they not? Apple makes billions but nobody every complains about their $200 billion in cash sitting around in Cupertino. Why is it not ok for EA, a publicly traded company with a board of directors and hundreds of millions of shares in the market, not allowed to look for ways to increase their revenue? At the end of the day, EA is a business just like Best Buy, or Google or GE. They are all in the business of making money. If you do not like the value that you are getting for your $60, that is one thing. But to criticize them for making money? That's just not logical.

Conclusion

I just wanted to put this out there to hopefully give guys a better understanding of what goes on behind the scenes to some degree. I can certainly appreciate where your frustration comes from. Nobody wants to get our leagues started more than us. Nobody is probably more frustrated with the gameplay in MUT and Draft Champions than me. But let's make sure that when we speak out about an issue or problems encountered that we try to be constructive and fair. We do not want to be one of those communities where guys go to bash EA or other companies. We want to be a place where guys come for mature, educated debate and discussion about Madden and other games we play.

Hope that helps some guys. I know they are working on a fix and that they truly want to deliver the best football experience ever. Hopefully communities like ours can help them find and fix these bugs and provide feedback for upcoming installments of the game so they can eventually reach that goal!
 

mycaddy

Starter
I have a lot to say and I agree and I want to add a lot but it is late and I am going to be a lil lazy but might come back and add tomorrow but seriously I think I always get much more than $60 worth out of this game... I mean my wife and I played Madden 15 up to release of ea early access... I have no idea how many online games I played but I know it was in the 100s... if you just include those I paid less than $1 a game... if you get into hours it was pennies per hour. I think that was a great value... and money well spent... the game is far from perfect but still a great value...
 

visionz813

Starter
The reality is that for a game that sells so many copies this QA team is basically non existent. If someone pays me to inspect something and I fail to notice gaping holes that later cause a huge problem I would likely be fired for my failure to perform.

Most "Game changers" offer little in the way of actual expertise. In fact 3/4 of them are Mut ballers or lobby players that could give a damn about CFM or sim play in general. They could have easily put out a CFM beta and found 90 percent of these bugs a month prior to launch using the community for a whopping free dollars.
 

Paytonno1son

Hall of Famer
The reality is that for a game that sells so many copies this QA team is basically non existent. If someone pays me to inspect something and I fail to notice gaping holes that later cause a huge problem I would likely be fired for my failure to perform.

Most "Game changers" offer little in the way of actual expertise. In fact 3/4 of them are Mut ballers or lobby players that could give a damn about CFM or sim play in general. They could have easily put out a CFM beta and found 90 percent of these bugs a month prior to launch using the community for a whopping free dollars.

When some of us were part of another sim website, plenty of our CFM guys were on the Game Changer team. I think they value it, but we all know it is more geared to keeping the Lobby player happy and also grabbing the new consumer as well. Because "SIM" is a subjective term, it's harder to cater to the whole SIMverse.

I do agree with releasing a beta for the sim community to test CFM. I hate that sometimes we are well into October before we have things worked out.:mad:
 

priestmvp

Starter
Exactly. My problem is they could have released a beta to the community months ago which would have promptly found 90% of the known bugs their team seems to never catch. They could have released a much better game "out of the box", and we could be on wk 4 of our cfm...instead we wait.
 

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
I'm not sure what's involved with a beta. I know other games have used it (Destiny being the largest example) so it may be possible.

However, kha0tikdreamz your views on the QA team are short sighted. It's simple math. There's no way a QA team can test what a million consumers can. A beta could solve that, sure. And some things like the franchise bug should have been found. And to that point you may be right. But they will never be able to find everything that a million people will in the first week.

You are also misinformed about the Game Changers. Many of them are from the sim community (as Paytonno1son pointed out). Even the lobby guys they bring in want to make the game more realistic and to have them fix glitches and exploits. They talked about that in their launch stream.

Again, I completely understand the frustration. I just wanted guys to understand some of what goes on behind the scenes and that things aren't always as easy as some think they should be. It's perfectly reasonable to be frustrated. But some of the personal attacks and insinuations that everything should be perfect just rubbed me the wrong way.
 

pack1797

Moderator
Staff member
A beta might help. I agree with Paytonno1son that SIM is a subjective term. We fall on the conservative side of the spectrum. Therefore, we are naturally more likely to notice odd AI behavior. I also agree with majesty95 that it's impossible for ea to replicate game launch numbers in qa testing. The numbers are to distanced.

One thing people are not mentioning is the launch window. Madden launches every year at the same time. Say they run a beta. Say they find game mode breaking bugs. Would the same people complaining about these issues, which are silly and frustrating as Hell, complain about a game delay? Because that's what happens when things go unexpectedly, and devs want to fix them. Delays. What if it was delayed until after week one of the season? I'm sure you can imagine the reaction.

We buy things on launch day because we want to play asap. I'm not cool with how cfm is right now by any means, but I'm not ready to go to war over it. People complain about Madden every year, hate ea, call it a waste of money, etc. But the next year, most of them are there on launch day again. It's the nature of the business. Online connectivity has allowed developers to fix problems on games they've already sold. Waiting sucks. But it could always be worse.
 

visionz813

Starter
Maybe I am being a little harsh. However, a QA team can mist certainly catch bugs that are on both consoles and easily reproduced.

That being said at this point I am even more unhappy about the fact that no one from EA has even attempted to provide updates. Such updates should be daily. Transparency would go a long way for me at least. I do not hate EA. But I do think they need to provide information.
 

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
Well, think about that. This is the first dev team we have ever seen from Madden that has been this active on social media. I mean, some kudos should go their way for that. And, what happens when they give an update or "projected" patch date and then something else goes wrong or they find a new bug they need to fix? Then everybody screams because its taking longer now. Personally, I feel they are doing great with staying active and talking to people. I would like to have an ETA on when we might be able to start, for sure. I just don't know if that is possible or worth the possible backlash if they encounter more delays.
 

visionz813

Starter
Simply saying "hey we need x days or y weeks" with the disclaimer that it's an estimate is better than silence. Activity on social media is awesome, but the lack of communication. Regarding the issues just isn't a good look.
 

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
Simply saying "hey we need x days or y weeks" with the disclaimer that it's an estimate is better than silence. Activity on social media is awesome, but the lack of communication. Regarding the issues just isn't a good look.

How is it a lack of communication? They have acknowledged everything. You posted the reddit Kolbe did last night reiterating things again. They've communicated that they know what's wrong and even that they've heard the community with things like the OP aggressive catch. They just aren't giving a date for a fix (yet). But what sports game company has ever said, hey this huge patch will be here this day? I've never seen it. There are too many variables. What other problems will they encounter and how long will it take Microsoft and Sony to certify it?

And not everyone is as understating as you if new delays popped up. This is the age of social media where 13 year old kids have a voice. You don't always know how old that person posting on a forum or Twitter is. All you see is screaming about this or that. My guess is that they feel its less headache for them and easier for them to manage the fallout without those issues, even at the expense of more civilized people like us having to go without updated. All we can do now is try to find ways to enjoy the game and each other until we can kick things off :)
 
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