**IMPORTANT** Rule Change - Goal line/QB Sneaks

majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
We have been deliberating behind the scenes about this and have decided to put the three rules changes in effect now vs the end of the season. Effective immediately, the following rules are in place for the use of goal line packages, QB sneaks and FB Dives:
  • Goal line offense can only be run at your opponent's 1-2 yards line. Reasoning: It is not realistic to run a "goal line" offense at midfield, especially with how limited the defenses in the goal line packages. This will limit exploits and hopefully force users to use more strategy while moving down the field.
  • QB sneaks may only be run one time per game and may not be used on 3rd or 4th down. Reasoning: In real life, the QB sneak is about 65%. In Madden, its about 95%. Its pretty much an automatic, especially anywhere on the field that your opponent cannot confidently run commit and blitz the house. Limiting the QB sneak to one time per game and not on 3rd or 4th down will hopefully force more strategic play and less reliance on easy "money" plays to convert 1st downs.
  • FB Dive may only be used one time per game. Reasoning: We've basically been operating under this premise so we wanted to make it policy. While the FB Dive is not as money as it was last year, it still converts probably 80% of the time. Again, we are just trying to force more strategy in games and give defenses who hold teams to 3rd and 4th and 1's to actually have a shot at stuffing them.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask in this thread. However, keep any future rule change proposals separate for now as we will have a place for that in the offseason.

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georgiafan

georgiafan

Hall of Famer
Lets say your playing a user and he has the ball inside the 2 and your defense makes 3 straight stops to force 4th and goal at the 1. I would feel cheated if the person ran a QB sneak on 4th and goal at the 1 since it is a 95% chance of success.

In general we just want people to not the save the $ plays for 3rd down and other strategic times.
 
Imperfect611

Imperfect611

Starter
Yeah I know it was more the idea of using the fake of a money play. Since the best play on X and 1 is FB dive another dangerous play is the fake to that play basically.
 
dspbuckle

dspbuckle

All-Star
I know we are in a future year and he's retired, but I'm pretty sure I see Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr. do a QB sneak at least 3 times a game some times. The man is 91-for-100 on third- and fourth-and-1 according to his stats. I for one have probably ran a QB sneak twice since starting this league on the goaline so it won't affect me drastically, but I'm not sure about limiting it to just 1st and 2nd down.

Scenero: What if I was 1st and 10 on opponent's 10, then 2nd and 3 and on 3rd down I was 3rd and inches. No QB sneak allowed? Bill Belichick would call that sneak on 3rd and inches to goal each time I'm sure, along with many other coaches (unless they got Johnny Manziel at center, too drunk to know which way is forward).
 
Imperfect611

Imperfect611

Starter
Limiting the amount of times I don't care about it is the situation. To me 3rd and 1 should be easy and if you don't want someone to get that 85-90% of the time don't let them get 3rd and 1.
 
georgiafan

georgiafan

Hall of Famer
The difference between real life and madden is that you can't really stop the QB sneak unless you do run commit
 
Imperfect611

Imperfect611

Starter
Imperfect611 said:
Limiting the amount of times I don't care about it is the situation. To me 3rd and 1 should be easy and if you don't want someone to get that 85-90% of the time don't let them get 3rd and 1.
Click to expand...

- The number of times an easy play is used being limited makes sense it takes very little skill to use it for how successful it is.

- Limiting the situations it can be called, because of how successful they are allows defenses to spread out more in general making all plays now less effective. Also, it limits what the defense has to be ready for.

- Goaline formation change is fine by me except for that it should also apply to defense within like 5 yards so it isn't used to stop the run. There are proper ways to do that.

- 3rd and 1 should be an easy conversion and if you don't want to be beat here by plays designed to get 1 yard, play better defense on 1st and 2nd down.


Look I think I argue almost every rule change and I am sorry I am such a pest about it I just like to discuss things and I don't mean to overlook the work that goes into this.
 
oBUCKNUTo

oBUCKNUTo

Contributor
dspbuckle said:
I know we are in a future year and he's retired, but I'm pretty sure I see Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr. do a QB sneak at least 3 times a game some times. The man is 91-for-100 on third- and fourth-and-1 according to his stats. I for one have probably ran a QB sneak twice since starting this league on the goaline so it won't affect me drastically, but I'm not sure about limiting it to just 1st and 2nd down.

Scenero: What if I was 1st and 10 on opponent's 10, then 2nd and 3 and on 3rd down I was 3rd and inches. No QB sneak allowed? Bill Belichick would call that sneak on 3rd and inches to goal each time I'm sure, along with many other coaches (unless they got Johnny Manziel at center, too drunk to know which way is forward).
Click to expand...
What did Johnny do to you?! ;)
 
dspbuckle

dspbuckle

All-Star
I don't mind most rule changes and will usually just "argue" for devil advocate sake, but I just can't see how in my scenario a QB sneak on 3rd and inches for a TD isn't allowed. This article claims that conversion rates of 1 yard or less are money plays in real life "largely due to the quarterback sneak, which has worked 85.9 percent of the time since 2009" and goes on to cite at least 12 sports illustrated articles on the matter. Sure running plays are only successful 67% of the time (according to sportsonearth.com) but this reflects raw play data. But if we look at it by play type the QB sneak has an 80% success rate (tied with read option) between 2010 and 2012.

According to NBC sports, PAT percent rates dropped last year so should we make an adjustment and max out wind speeds so each PAT isn't a gimme too? This article has Adam Schafer mentioning on Sept 28 (quite early into the 2015 season) that 14 PATS had been missed by this point, but I have yet to see one missed in PX1. Maybe we should only allow 3 PAT's per game and at force at least one 2point conversion attempt by the end of the 3rd quarter to eliminate this money play too?

The chart below (from the sports on earth article) shows the QB sneak called 14.9% of the time on 3/4th and 1/2 between 2010 and 2012. So 1 time per game makes sense indeed, even if the data is a bit outdated. I'm not saying don't limit the amount we use it, but I just can't imagine not going for a QB sneak on 3rd and inches, so I can't agree with no 3rd/4th down QB sneak. Even if it is deemd a money play, but then agian you risk injury and "In many cases, the play is not actually a "sneak" as there is nothing surprising about the play when used in situations where a short gain is needed" (Tanier, Mike. "4th and Go For It?". Sports on Earth. 25 November 2013.)

Table2_35mlub6f_vpotvegt.jpg


"That’s the beauty of the quarterback running the ball in short yardage. No matter whom he is, that player will always have the schematic advantage over the defense. They are all short-yardage specialists due to positioning alone."- Scott Kacsmir, Football Insiders 2013
 
georgiafan

georgiafan

Hall of Famer
Those are good points dsp but like I've said we are trying to prevent lazy play calling and calling stuff like qb sneaks and FB dives on 3rd and 1 are examples of that. It's also a problem in the pass gaming but that's harder to make rules about.

When you called a QB sneak it was pretty much a automatic 1st down. Now you have to call a inside handoff and that's easier for the defense to stop. In year 1&2 not hardly anyone was calling QB sneaks now its becoming more of a problem so that's why we made the change now with playoffs around the corner.

Special teams is another area where you could see rule changes. Its one of the areas that is rumored to be fixed in m17 but I don't really see that happening.
 
majesty95

majesty95

Admin
Staff member
Imperfect611 said:
I fear it can lead to lazy playcalling for the defense though now that two of the potent options are being limited in clutch situations.
Click to expand...

How? FB Dive is not banned on 3rd or 4th down, it's just limited to 1 per game. So you can run a FB dive if you haven't already, you can run a Fake FB Dive Toss if you haven't run 2 tosses yet. You can run a dive or Iso, inside zone, stretch, power, counter, PA FB or TE corner...

dspbuckle I can appreciate your points and all of that is taken into account. However, 80% and 95% is a huge difference. You just cannot line your guys up in Madden and get the same results. You have to blitz 9 guys from goal line to have any chance at stopping the QB sneak and even that's rare. Goal line defense from anywhere other than goal line leaves you completely exposed bs the pass. So essentially it creates a situation where the defense either has to sell out 100% to stopping the sneak if not at the goal line with the understanding it's going to be a TD if they call a toss or pass.

It's just not realistic. And it's not a realistic or fair position to put the defense in. If the defense stuffs you on 2nd and 3rd and 1. You shouldn't be able to just say, "ok I'm going QB sneak here to go ahead and convert". That's weak and we're seeing it more and more. That's no different than getting yourself in a 3rd and 17 and calling 4 verts from trips to bail you out. We want guys to use strategy and actually think through these situations. We want guys to sometimes not convert a 4th and 1 (which ive never seen stuffed this year BTW and thereafter for the rule).

I've pretty much played this way and most of the leadership team has as well. You don't see us run many QB sneaks and if we do they are usually always at the goal line. We've done just fine. That's why we know it works. We're just tired of seeing guys take the easy way out instead of having to think through what they are going to do in these situations.
 
Dues21

Dues21

Prospect
My question is this. Why build a scheme around dangerous plays such as the toss if u can only call those plays 2 times a game. That takes ur opponent (the enemy) out of there game plan cuz they scared. That's what a scheme does. Make no mistake about it, this is war! That's not cheese that's limiting plays cuz u can't stop them. Now calling fb dive when ever on the field is stupid and easy yards. But why not in the red zone on 3 or 4th? No matter the situation. People have to think for them selves. I mean if u got a good scheme in the Iform and they think the dive is coming and totally blow it! Thats on the user. I know I'm new and haven't played a game yet. But I am paying 2.99 so consider that my 2cents.
 
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